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OBAL HISTORY OF WEST SOUTHERN PINES
I TEBVIEW WITH: MISS WILMA ARD MISS BESSIE RA.STY Off JUNE 9, 1982
I TERVIEWER: NANCY MASON • NM: I theught yeu might be 1n by telling me a little b1t ameut yourself.
WH: I ha~e been 1n WSP about all et ay 11fe. I taught up there th1rtys1x
years. I taught f1rat and aeoend grade.
NM: When did 7 u begin teaching?
WH: In 1933.
NM: Where waa the schoel located 1n 19JJ?
WH: Where 1t 1 new.
NM: D• yeu recall aeae ef the •ther peeple who were 1n~e1Ted with the
acheel 1n these days?
WH: There wa a Miss Cer a Steele and her sister Alberta Steele Ballard.
Mr. S1egar was principal when I started.
NM: Did yeu e r hear ef Dr. Cady?
WJ:t: ill I knew 1e that he was just seaeene interested 1n the s heel. He
helped the ••heel a let.
Ma What made yeu dec1d te teaoh?
WH: My aether died 1n 1933 and I ca e heae te be with my rath r. I taught
1n Rebb1ns fer teur 7eara. When I taught there it was called Heap.
M: D• 7eu reaember mu h abeut when yeur father was aay r?
WB: I was 1n acheol aest er the t1me when he was mayer. I was away.
NM: Where d1d yeu s• te soheel?
WH: I ent te Greensb re, FayetteY1lle and Durham.
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M: Whats he ls did yeu g te?
WH: In Greensb•re there wa a scheel called Emmanuel Lutheran Cellege.
In FayetteY1lle I went te Fayetteville State.
NM: De yeu re ember h w many teachers were teaoh1ng when yeu started?
Na.nc7 Masen
WHs Wilma Hasty
.H: Be a1e Hasty
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SP: Seuthern Pines
WSP: West Southern Pines
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Mrs. Ela1ra Flewers was a primary teacher. Mr. & Mrs. O.J. Saunders,
•he was a pr1 ary and he was a grammar grade teacher. Flera Chaplin
taught pr1aary. There was Mr. Fred Lutz and Mr. McKinley Arlll treng.
Mr. B.T. S1 ens was a auslc teacher. My brether al•• taught aus1c •
Mrs. L.M. Barksdale taught primary. J.w. Meere waa pr1no1pal 1n 1951.
D1d yeltr brether teach aus1e?
He taught the band. He oeuld play any 1nstrwaent. Mr. E.T. Clarke
taught industrial edueat1 n. Mrs. o.c. Peerman taught H me Ecenem1ca.
Mr. A.J. Jene taught eleaemtary. Mrs. I.H. M•ere taught usic and
eleaentary. Mrs. D.S. Miller taught grammar. Mrs. E.W. ,erse taught
primary.
Did a let ef the teachers live 1n WSP er did they ceme here te ~each?
Seme r the lived here and seme •f the came in te teaeh. Mr. B.T.
S1mmen• taught music. Cera Steele was an eleaemtary tea her. Mrs.
Watkins taught French and Histery. Mr. H.A. Wilsen taught math and
Science. Mrs. M.J. ~lue was an ele entary. Mrs. N.P. Wllaen was
elementary and she werked w1th the girl ceuts. Dewey McLean taught
aua1e.
Did the sohe•l• here haTe auch cennect1en w1th the ceunty soheols?
WH: I oan•t y.
Were there many students? Did the number change uoh fr•• the time
7eu started te teach te the later years?
tit grew.
NM: Did the scheel ge fer the same a eunt •f time that it dees n w?
WH: When the soheel was en New Y rk Avenue 1t had t ge nine enths.
~efere that it may h Te been different. I alse had anether sister
n: d Mary Hasty Greer whe taught H me Eoeneaies. She tauaht after
I started. ·
NM: Seae ef the pe ple that I talked w1th said that see er the kids weuld
get exouaed te d• aeae caddying. D• yeu rememb r that?
WH: I den•t reme ber that. Seae m re et the teaohers were Mrs. A.B. Parsens
wh was the kindergarten teaoher. Miss A.M. Saunders wa eleaentary.
NM: What was sch el like when yeu t1~at started?
WB: W• had reading and writing and things 11ke that.
NM: Were the b ks suppl1ed by the oeunty?
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Seme et them were.
H•• many were 1n y ur tam1ly?
There were e1ght children. My eldest br ther was Erie Gilbert Hasty.
There was Helen and Kary and anether sister was Laureen. All et the
oh1ldren are still 11T1ng except tr Albert.
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There was anether lady that taught sch••l fr• Manly. Her name was
SaTannah Baney. It was like a subscr1pt1on sch• l where the children
paid t1Ye cents a week. I heard this- I wasn't areund then. Willie
o. Pewell was the first public sch• 1 teacher.
NM: D yeu kn w wh was behind getting the sch 1 system started here?
WH: S me f that was befere we eYer caae here.
NM: Whe was yeur first teacher?
WH: Willie o. Pe ell was.
NM: Hew many students d1d yeu ha'Ye 1n y ur class?
WH: F1fty-twe.
NM: Were they all fr m WSP?
WR: They were just from the area?
NM: Wha ould y u say was the hardest part about the teaching?
WHa I enjeyed y w•rk.
NMa H w did y u get the job here? Were they advertising r r a teacher?
WH:
There was a vacaney se I applied. Mr. Da.ws•n was the superintendent.
weuld yeu get paid the saae as the ether teachers in the area?
I think we gt the same.
NM: What were the students like? Did you haYe preblems with discipline?
WHs Ne.
NM: Did yeu start getting mere meney fer the scbeols after they had integrated
WB: I don't knew because I had quit teaching by then.
NM: A let f y u were 1n cellege and teaching. Do you think that as
because ot what yeur parents did?
WH: jll fit. They enceuraged us.
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w uld the parents play a very active r•le with the scheol while y u
were teaching?
They were Tery active. We had grade m there and parent teacher meetings ••
Mias Stubbs was the treasurer of the Parents Teachers Asseciat1 n.
ReT. J. ETans was the secretary. Mr. H. Faison was the president.
D1d yeur parent• part1oipate in the Pl'A?
Ye.
NMi D1d all eight r the children g t the WSP scheol?
WR: Yes.
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NM: Did they haTe playgr unds and things f•r the kids there?
~: Yes. They didn't haYe the equipment but they had the grounds t play.
NM: Did y u ever ha e any ne fr m the c unty come 1n and m niter y ur
classes?
WH: The c unty supervis r did. Her name was Mrs. Tal'ba Tillman Br wn.
NM: Did the schoel have a lot f activities?
WH: Not at first but after we gt the gym we had mere.
NM: Where did the money come fro for the gym?
WH: We had programs for that money.
NM: You had alt f g d sp rte teams. Where would they play?
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Outside.
What teams w uld Y: u play?
Aberdeen and Carthage, Sant rd and R ckingham.
And fr uniforms w uld the c unty help you t• get them?
N. Nothing ~1ke that.
Did the PrA have fund raising events tr the school?
WH: Yes. We had plays and concerts.
NM: Where did the children in the band get their instruments?
WH: They each had to get their wn.
NM: Were the scho ls any different when the town had the separate charter?
WH: N. I den•t remember it changing.
NM: w uld your rather haves me r the towm meetings here in the house?
BH: Ye• but we had t leave.
NM: When did you get electricity here?
WH: In the 1940s. Along New Y rk Avenue was referred to as the Sandbed.
NM: Why as it called the Sandbed?
WH: It was Just deep sand just 11ke a sink hele. There were n sidewalks.
WH:
Your fe t buried d wn in the sand.
What d1d the tewn d when y ur father asked the town t get the lights
there?
We gt lights.
m nths he had t
The t wn charged WSP thirteen dollars am nth.
pay it himself.
Many
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NM: D y u think they started the separate t n here because there weren't
any services?
N• services.
NM1 Had peeple tried t get the admin1strat1 n there t get water and
sewers? What did they say?
BH: Wed n•t have any m ney. We c uldn•t get a policeman over here.
We did all f ur cheres before it gt dark because we didn•t dare
g out atter dark.
NMa When did y u get the ph ne service ver here?
WH: S metime in the 1940s. We c uldn•t get paved streets either. OUr
father o ntributed m ney of his ewn t get this done.
NM: Did any ne else c ntr1bute fr m their own p ckets 11ke y ur rather?
BH: A few did.
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Did the pe ple here loek t y ur father t help them?
Yes. He went everywhere trying t get help for some ot the needy
peeple. There waan•t much federal money then.
How did he comet• be seen in that way?
By the interest he took in the pe ple. They knew 1f they told him he
would try to do something abut it. I don't kn w how many he helped
to get a home of their own.
Did he think that having the separate town would help him be ab
to get these things done?
No. He did s me f these things bef re then.
The people did as they pleased. Yeu had tog
This was n• man•s land.
t carthage to get help.
What h pes do you think y ur father had for WSP when it became a
separate t wn?
They just didn't kn w abut all the d1tferent funds they could haTe
g ttem to help the t wn. All them ney the t wn had t run cm was the
little they gt frem the tax payers.
Where did SP get their meney?
Id n•t know but we didn't get any of it.
De you th1nk that your father t ught that some of the problems e uld
be solTed here threugh having the separate charter?
Id n•t kn• hew many were favorable towards 1t in the beginning.
They th ught they couldn't do any worse and by working with 1t maybe
they could work up something.
Why was it not until 1927 that he was officially one of the people
wh geverned the town?
I wasn't here; I can't tell you that. He W&8 a c9mm1as1 ner.
n the sohoel board and the ceunty board that reviewed oases.
He was
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What do you think made him start being directly involved in the tewn
g vernment?
He was just elected and Mayr Hines resigned. I think he would have
rather had his regular rk. He wouldn't be tied te one thing. He
o uld just g on with what had te d.
was he upset when the t wn lest the charter?
He as very much s.
NM, Do 7ou think he felt that the7 didn't ha~e en ugh time t test to see
if they could make it and not en ugh c -operat1 n?
BH: Yes. I'm sure he did.
NM: Did he ever say tha t h th ught th1ngs were being un ermined by certain
activities in ESP?
BH: Yes. I can't name th se things. I was on the outsi•e of it all
and all I kn w as things I would hear him say. If there was a fire
ver here they would say we have no right to oome over there now.
It wasn't quite fair to do it the way they did 1t. The wh le town
would burn before you got something like that from Carthage.
NM: So what would happen if there was a fire during that time?
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The h use ould juat burn.
the h use.
I know one time a man got burned up 1n
Did y u have a fire depart ent here during that time?
N t n this side. we didn't have water then. The insurance d wn here
was real high because we didn't have a hydrant.
Who would be suppl~ing the 1nsuranoe for WSP?
Nat1onw1de, Farmer and ~urner. They were agents from ESP. They'd
take your ney but they didn't lobby for a hydrant t make your rate
come d wn.
Did y ur father think that the town would be able to get the charter
back when he as part of the suit to get the oharter back?
I don't kn w. I asn•t here. I think he was pretty much d1sgus ted
with it. He wanted to kn w why 1t was d ne the way it was.
D1d he ever get an explanation?
N •
Did he ever say what he thought could have happened if the charter
had not been revoked1
He saw possibilities of things that could have happened and what could
be built up 1f p ple w uld c - perate. A lot of time you could talk
t people but they have to see. They oan•t work by faith. They have to
see.
NM: Are there any of the h uses that your father helped to build still
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-?here?
Yes. People w uld come to him and he would help them build them.
Hew uld build the house and they wou1 ~ pay him a certain amount
each month and after they paid him a certain amount they owned the
h use.
What do y u think he would have liked for WSP to become?
If he could see it n w with the light and the sewers and the paved
streets he would be happy. Hew uld be happy to see the n1ce homes
built n the land over there. It was owned by a German man, Von Herr.
He wouldn't sell any land; he wanted it to gr w up in pines. After
he died his family started selling the land. Pennsylvaina Avenue
was finished but it wasn't paved. You had to keep the doors shut to
keep the red dust from coming in your house.
NM: Are there any things he wouldn't like t see?
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I can't say. I can telly u more about the things that hew uld like.
A lot of the drug addicts and th1ngs like that he ouldn•t like.
What d y u think were the main results of WSP having the charter?
D you think that it was helpful in terms of speeding up getting the
1mpr ve11ents?
I think so. Maybe they didn't know what was going to happen. What they
might get on to. That maybe rried them more than we knew.
Had things gotten worse here as some of the newspaper articles had
indicated?
WH: Alt f people were against 1t. N t being here I only know what I
heard.
NM: Did conditions here seem to be any worse? In 1927,2ij,29 & JO?
WH: N. We had law and order.
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So the things they said about the outlaws and the health hazards weren't
necessarily true?
They ere true before we got the charter not after. Before 1t wa 11ke
a "No Man's Land". They did what they wanted t. After the charter we
had policemen. They patrolled the area. They would arrest th se people.
Why did ESP pick that as a reason to take the charter away?
Well they had to say something to take it over.
So something that wasn•t paid attention to before started to be paid
attent1 n to.
Id n•t know what 1t was but they saw something and they said we better
revoke that charter and take over.
What do you think the people in ESP were afra14 of happening?
Maybe they fund that they were going to have to divide the
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money that c mes in the supplement from the government, state, and
county. When the state c llects x s from everybody they divide 1t.
They pr -rate 1t and send 1t around t the towns. When 1t all goes
to ne place we didn't get any of 1t. The only m&ney we got was the
tax m ney and the business tax.
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You didn't get anything from the county?
N ta thing.
Do you remember what your father said when when he found out for sure
that the charter was g 1ng t be revoked?
I den't think he knew ahead that 1t was revoked. Actions had already
been done before they knew. Lt. Oxley came back here and t ld them.
They never round out the reason.
was he an attorney?
Yes.
NM: The attorney's name on the su1t was Andrew McCoy. D you remember
that?
BH: 1 . s n •t here. I don•t know.
NM: Did Lt. Oxley keep 1n touch over the years after the charter was
obtained in 1923?
I don't know. I wasn't here.
was in Pennsylvania.
Rev. Hines was in charge 1n 1923. I
NM: Ho did you know the nmae Lt. Oxley?
BH: I heard my father talk about him. He went to carthage with them t
try and find out what ' the reason was for revoking the charter. Things
were through when we fund out about it.
NM: They never informed y u about what they were trying to do?
BH: They promised to open up streets and have a police force and things
like that and just recently have we had all of that happen.
NM: How did they tell you. Did they come and tell your father first?
BHs Id n•t remember how they told the•· I wasn't here.
NM: Do you remember if Lt. Oxley was a black man? Do you remember h1s
first name?
BH: Yes. I think he was black. I can't remember his first name. I don't
know what e~en brought h1m here.
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And you don't remember any of the peeple or. th1ngs that would have
br ught him here?
A11 the ones that ere here when all of this was going on are not
here no. The most I kno about it 1s what I would hear my daddy
say.
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Your father &hared a lot of information with you even though you
weren't here but he knew what was happening. I've found that with
people not having that kind of contact that 1t was easy just as it
is now to live somwwhere and not really know exactly what•s going
on.
And it seems they're not interested. I remember one time we were
out in the yard and a man passed through and he called me Captain.
He sa1d"M1ss Hasty how's the captain?" And she said "She's all right."
He went on down to the sandbed and he got killed that night and the
next mo~n1ng I was going to help a lady do some work and ran right
by there and the man was lying there on his face. I thought he was
drunk. The lady that was waiting for me out there said this w 11
have to stop. I thought what are you talking about, people get drunk
all of the time. She said the man is dead. I was frightened, because
he had passed through here that Sunday afternoon and had asked about
me and they use to tell me that if a person asked about you and they
die before they see you again that they will come back. I even stuck
paper in the key holes at night. I was scared to death. Someone
told me they carried his body over running water and if they did that
he . couldn't come back. That helped me a little but not much. It
took me years to get over that. Finally one Sunday morning he came
in our house. The door pushed open and I remember he had on khaki
pants and a navy blue coat. I c uldn•t see his face. He came rig t
to the bed where I was lying and stood r1ght next to the bed. I was
afraid to move and I yelled and my daddy said that wasn't anything
but the cat that pushed the doer open. I got up and the cat was ut
on the porch and the door as locked. And I went through the kitchen
and the kitchen door was locked. He just disappeared like that and
I never saw him anymore. I didn't worry about 1t anymore. When I
tell that people think I'm making it up but it was real to me. Maybe
1t was something that just happened to relieve me and maybe 1t didn't
happen at all but to me it happened •